Budget Debate
Brooks Newmark participates in the budget debate and highlights, amongst other things, the need for more spending on flood defences in places such as Coggeshall which faces severe flooding.
Mr. Brooks Newmark (Braintree) (Con): I am somewhat curious, although I sympathise with what the hon. Gentleman is saying. What aspect of the Chancellor's Budget will change the behaviour of consumers, who the hon. Gentleman sees as causing the greenhouse gases, rather than be merely a revenue-collecting mechanism?
Rob Marris: With respect to the hon. Gentleman, he appears to be completely missing the point that I am making. I am talking about not the causes side of the equation, although I have referred to it by saying that we spend too much of the available time talking about it, but the effects side of the equation. I think that when the hon. Gentleman talks about changing behaviour, he is referring to, for example, people flying less. I am saying not that he advocates that, but that that is the sort of behaviour change to which he is referring. However, that is on the causes side of the equation; I am talking about the effects side of the equation.
Mr. Newmark: But we are talking about the Budget, and in addressing the Budget one should examine what the Chancellor is doing to change the behaviour that has led to the effects about which the hon. Gentleman talks. I would thus once again like to ask him what aspect of the Budget will change the way in which people behave, rather than charge already-rich people with 4x4s a few extra pounds that the Chancellor can shove into his coffers.
Rob Marris: I humbly suggest that the hon. Gentleman should make his speech and let me make mine. I am not talking about causes-that is not the point that I am trying to make. If he wishes to speak about causes and behaviour, he will be very welcome to do so, if he can catch the eye of the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. I am talking about effects. There is something in the Budget about effects. It is not enough, but I will go on to speak about it.
Last Thursday, the Minister for Climate Change and the Environment and I went to a conference in Oxford that was held by the UK Climate Impacts Programme. It was very weird for me to go to a conference in the morning that was held at my wife's old college and then to go to a community meeting in the evening that was held at her old primary school, although that seemed to bookend the day nicely. UKCIP is doing wonderful work on climate impacts-this is on the effects side of the equation-although I think that it is underfunded, so I hope that the comprehensive spending review will address that. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development places us as a world leader in addressing the effects and impacts of climate change-the adaptation, as the scientists call it-but we need to do far more.
Many of the issues that we need to address relate to water. Summer droughts will increase, as will winter flooding. It is likely that coastal erosion will increase, as will coastal flooding caused by higher tides. Sadly, I think that that took place in north Norfolk last night. We need to address the effects of those changes, whether that is by building better sea defences, larger diameter storm sewers to take away excess winter rains, or more reservoirs. There is a whole host of stuff that we could do, although I will not go into it now-anyone who is especially interested can look up in Hansard my previous speeches on the matter. UKCIP is driving forward, with an incredible amount of regional involvement, all the stuff that is going on below the surface on adapting to climate change that we never really talk about in the House.
Mr. Newmark: Let me address the effects that the hon. Gentleman is talking about. In my constituency of Braintree, the village of Coggeshall faces severe flooding. However, when we ask the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs for money for flood defences, we are told that it is not available. What aspect of the Budget showed that the Chancellor might be allocating more for better flood defences in this country?
Rob Marris: That ultimately is a matter for the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. In the past 10 years, under this Government, the flood defence budget has increased by about 35 per cent. in real terms. I hope that the hon. Gentleman and the House will forgive me if I am wrong, but I quote that figure from memory. That budget has gone up markedly, but I agree with the hon. Gentleman that it needs to go up more. I have said that to the Government on a number of occasions, and I hope that they are listening.
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AND LATER IN THE SAME DEBATE
Mr. Newmark: Does my hon. Friend not agree that this is another classic case of the Chancellor giving something away with one hand but clawing back even more money with the other? A case in point is the impact on a single person without children earning £16,000 as an NHS maternity care assistant, or a police community support officer, who will pay more in tax but fail to gain from the tax credits touted by the Chancellor.
Mr. Evans: As in all cases, there are winners and losers. For the Chancellor to suggest that everyone will win in the Budget, and to dress up the 2p reduction as an additional bonus, is a somewhat dishonest portrayal of what the Budget is all about. There was one win-win situation-the landfill tax and the increase in the aggregates levy mean that the Chancellor will earn money when a hole is created, and then earn more money when the hole is filled up. That is one environmental measure that puts him in a win-win situation.
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Mr. Newmark: Off-balance sheet financing is a legitimate device, and I appreciate why the Government use it, but they are never going to let NHS buildings or schools collapse. Does my hon. Friend agree that there needs to be far greater transparency in off-balance sheet financing? Should not items such as hospitals or schools that the Government stand fully behind be put on the balance sheet, or be noted somewhere in the accounts as Government liabilities?
Mr. Field: My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We have long argued that much of the off-balance sheet financing, especially in PFI and the public-private partnerships, should appear on the balance sheet. The obvious reason why that does not happen is that, if it did, public debt and public liabilities would rise to levels much higher than any prudent Chancellor could like. The invidious effect of the PFI is that it creates liabilities today that others in the future will have to pay for. The criticism has been muted, understandably, because contractors, lawyers, accountants and people in construction have benefited from PFI to a large extent. The great genius of PFI has been the way in which, in my view, it was abused over the past decade.
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Mr. Newmark: I acknowledge what the Chancellor said about tax credits, but there is no point in continuing to give out with largesse tax credits, day after day, unless there is fundamental reform of the tax credit system. Is my hon. Friend aware that three out of every five people who receive tax credits get the wrong amount? That is a significant problem.
Mr. Field: I am aware of the great problems that exist. My hon. Friend rightly used the word "largesse". I worry that there is a sense of great public sector largesse. That may prove electorally beneficial to the Labour party and a Labour Government going forward, but there will obviously be great concerns about our global competitiveness.
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Mr. Newmark: Perhaps I could help the hon. Lady. The Chancellor is in a difficult position, because he has set an artificial level of 40 per cent., as she says, but the problem that he faces is that he has put twice as much money off balance sheet. In fact, the real level of debt is 105 per cent. of GDP. The bind that he faces is that he can either continue to put things on the balance sheet, and breach the mythical 40 per cent. mark, or he can put more and more money off balance sheet, which will take us way over 100 per cent. of GDP.
Lynne Jones: I do not accept those figures. I am not a fan of private finance initiatives, but they are a relatively small proportion of overall investment. The figures are in the Red Book; they are relatively small compared to overall debt, and indeed compared to capital spending. Current annual capital spending is about 1 per cent. of GDP, which takes us back to the levels of 1992.
